I am a fan of something that is loosely referred to as an “orthogonal approach” applied to intensely debated social and religious issues.
So I was excited when I saw that Adam Frank, an astrophysicist from the University of Rochester invoked it in a . And while Frank, who would consider himself a “strident atheist” and myself, a convinced follower of Jesus, have a number of key points of disagreement, I liked the overall trajectory of his article.
At least at first. His take was that we need to try to not fall into the same “us versus them” pattern that can so often derail the discussion. That by thinking “orthogonally” we can put a right angle in the discussion and come up with something that is entirely new.
Then I ran across what I run across all to often in discussions with those who would consider themselves commited scientists and atheists. The issue that is seemingly not even noticed is the baseline belief that those with religious belief are more opposed to this discussion than those without religious belief. That the religious, with my experience being obviously as a follower of Jesus, have behaved more poorly in the discussion than our counterparts.
Yes, I liked how Frank mentioned Einstein’s concern about fanatical atheists who were as intolerant as their religious counterparts. And yes I liked how he talked about our need to approach a discussion that can often be conducted on one axis (only my side has value) more orthogonally. Not just shoot for a middle position, but take a right angle on the axis and create something different. Adam, I was with you.
Remember, this isn’t about what the conclusion is, Frank and I would clearly disagree on that, but rather how we can engage in this discussion seeking to be listeners and not just winners.
But, then it happened. And it was going so well.
Of course the point must always be made that in domains of politics and policy strident atheists are infinitely more tolerent and less damaging than the gang hanging out at other end of the spectrum.
It isn’t even that I am bothered by his opinion on the matter. It is the “Of course” that starts that opinion off. That “of course” approach is what is so frustrating for me.
Much more often than not, when I enter into a discussion with a scientifically oriented atheist, the presumption is that I am likely a knuckle-dragging holdover from an earlier evolutionary stage. My experience is that in the significant majority of conversations, rarely is time taken to investigate whether their hypotheses about me are true.
I recognize the look of disbelief mixed with frustration, disdain and occasionally even pity.
I am not saying that there aren’t many from among those that follow Jesus that haven’t been equally offensive. I remember a Christian I knew that had a bumper sticker that read “April 1st – National Atheists’ Day” and I remember those that cheered his “bravery” in proudly driving around with it on his bumper.
So I am not saying the faith community has handled itself well all the time. And I am not asking people to feel sorry for me as I know very well that many followers of Jesus around the world suffer much more than disparaging looks.
My issue is that it must at least be acknowledged that, for at least a portion of the atheist/scientific community; this thought is so automatic that it could even find its way into a posting urging its readers to not do that very thing.
Sometimes it would seem we have a very long way to go.
Peace, Jim
So, the inevitable piece of news. Westboro Baptist Church is coming to Blacksburg
today to protest in front of Cassell Coliseum today just before the of Officer Deriek Crouse. Notice no hotlink to Westboro’s site?
A bully in middle school taught me why.
There was a kid who lived near me (I won’t name a name as I am always surprised to see who reads this) who loved to mess with me. It kind of became his thing. I was a small kid with… ladies prepare yourselves… a bad haircut, bifocals, braces with headgear… That’s right. Add to that an almost complete lack of coordination, and a very smart mouth that often moved a bit faster than my brain.
Needless to say, I talked myself into a lot of situations.
This guy, who was much bigger, decided I would be his bullying muse for the year. I tried to fight back – verbally, physically. I tried being nice. Nothing would work.
Then I decided to simply render his insults irrelevant. He would make a comment and I’d say “not bad.” He would shove me when he walked by and I would say “nice form.” The first thing that did is it calmed me down. The next thing it did was it removed the audience he loved to get by messing with me.
I took his audience away.
In Proverbs 16 we are told that a wise persons’s heart makes their speech wise and more persuasive. I have learned over the years to tame my mouth -most of the time. Sometimes that means overlooking a wrong, other times to speak against it. Both of those pieces of wisdom are given to us in Proverbs and both are right.
But I think of this response as neither overlooking or speaking against.
I think Proverbs 26.4,5 shares the tension we walk in…
4 When arguing with fools, don’t answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are. 5 When arguing with fools, be sure to answer their foolish arguments, or they will become wise in their own estimation.
Both are true. When you understand the proverbial wisdom nature of, well, Proverbs, then you see these aren’t in contradiction. They are both right. Wisdom therefore, needs to guide us into which one we invoke. I think, today, verse four.
People have tried for years to speak wisdom and truth into these folks’ lives. I tried when they last came to Tech. I spoke with Shirley Phelps-Roper, unsurprisingly to no avail. They want the audience, they are somehow energized by the counter-protests. Their revenue stream is dependent on getting big numbers of web-hits, drawing big crowds. So, now, like my middle school bully, let’s move past them.
Let them come.
Ignore them.
With the prayer-filled hope that they will just fade away.
Westboro Baptist Church is at it again.
While they were once known as the God Hates Fags people, that hardly seems accurate anymore. Now, they are the God hates the military/victims of natural disasters/victims of manmade disasters/victims of crime people. But now, whamoo! they have gone too far!
Just for the record, here is Romans 9.13… In the words of the Scriptures, “I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau.” I cannot even bear going into it, I will allow my new friend of to do the “honors” for me.
I don’t know, maybe it would make more sense in Comic Sans Serif?
Like most that live around Virginia Tech, the anniversary of the shootings can seem to hang over my head. But now there is something else.
Westboro Baptist Church is coming into town. The delightful gang that started the godhatesfags website and has recently been picketting funerals of everyone from soldiers who have been killed in action, to those of children that have been killed by cars. At all of them the theme is the same, “God hates you and what you are doing. You (or someone else) caused this.”
Seems their schedule is flexible enough to fit us in. Wonderful. Here is their itenerary while they are in the area.
So now, those of us in leadership of just about any group are asking ourselves the question, what do we do to respond to what they do? I have heard great ideas that range from simply being somewhere else and not giving them any audience, to some that are suggesting we aggressively protest them.
The question I have is, what is a thoughtful Christ-like response to thoughtless rantings? At [nlcf], we are kicking around a number of ideas right now. In the next few days we will list out what we are suggesting. I am sure we will also want to be as involved as possible in the local and university’s response to all this is going to be.
So, what do you think we should do? What would you suggest? Why would you suggest it?
~~ I have just removed the hotlink to the WBC site at the suggestion of a web-savvy-internet-guru friend named Liz! She felt it was best to not make it easier/enticing for people to go to the site and essentially help their numbers stay high.
One thing I would like this blog to do is draw attention to some of the silliness that exists in our world, inside the church and out. So… feel free to send me links to news that, maybe doesn’t surprise you that it ever happened, but definitely surprises you that it still happens today. It makes you scrunch your face and say, “still”?
If I may suggest the first inductee. Straight out of in North Carolina. Pastor Marc, the floor is yours. A good old fashioned … or tearing.
Now I am certainly not suggesting that I agree with everything that occurs in our world today. Far from it. Our world is broken and we see the indications of that all around us. But I would suggest that Jesus has laid out a different way to engage that brokenness. I would say that Jesus’ way is harder, actually, than what Pastor Marc has done – although I bet he would disagree.
What we see in Jesus was an example of someone who meaningfully engaged what was wrong in our world, called it what it was, unmasked it and yet did so in a way that people were drawn to him and the Father in the process. And now he calls those of us who call ourselves his apprentices to do the same. To walk that line carefully between accepting everything at face value and simply circling our wagons and condemning the whole thing.
Even though I am having a bit of fun with what they did, I would be dishonest if I didn’t acknowledge that I have done similar things. No burnings (or tearings, it would seem) mind you, but in the past I have used that same mindset. I have felt competition with the world around me, instead of compassion. I have felt superior to those around me, instead of taking the attitude of Christ the servant.
I have tried to put those things behind me as I turn over more of my heart to Jesus, which gives me more time to make other mistakes.
