Jim Pace not only is a clone of Scott Van Pelt from ESPN but he's also a pastor and lead navigator at [nlcf] in Blacksburg, VA and author of Should We Fire God? to be released April 8, 2010
It was once said, “If you cannot be a wise person, at least be near them.” I really don’t think I could add to what Wendy shared. She is one of the smartest women I know, so I take her words respectfully. Wendy, thank you for adding your thoughts to the mix, it is better for them.
To Stephen, Curtis, Micheal, both my friends, and everyone who has participated or read this discussion, thanks for doing so. Hopefully we have all been stretched by this discussion, I am certain that I was.
And I really cannot think of any way to close this discussion out that is better than allowing my friend, who my initial posting was about, the last word. He just did so, and beautifully.
So, to end this discussion, at this time…
I have a friend who is gay.
Well, not really, that just makes for a good opening line.
The friend I am talking about would technically be considered a non-practicing male homosexual. He would also describe himself as someone who struggles with his same sex attraction.
My friend is mostly excited about the opportunity to be open about his life.
Mostly.
well… here we are… 2010. wow.
so, there have been a lot of postings on the blog since i have last meaningfully posted myself. in my last post, i said that i would answer stephen’s questions of why is this an issue at all? very fair question and a good one to look at.
what have done is posted the link to a series [nlcf] did, probably 7ish years ago. it is called, the hate people. the premise is that often the church (or at least the evangelical portion of it) has been characterized by a fairly small subset of attention grabbing individuals. they believe what they say and are allowed to say it. and they get the lion’s share of the microphone time.
and they often do not at all represent what i think. or what many of my friends think.
so we posed the question, are Christians the hate people? we seem to be known for what we are against, what we picket, what we protest. is that a clear representation of Christ’s heart for our generation?
we asked the questions: does God hate those who worship other religions, homosexuals, the environment and women? all issues that we felt were very intense, and ones where i (and many others) would say our views are misunderstood or misrepresented.
i include the talk i did on the issue of homosexuality with a few caveats. the first; remember, i did this talk six or seven years ago. you will notice that i use you know quite a bit, i also really seemed to like the phrase, these things. you will hear it. alot. 
sorry. essentially, as a communicator i was still reasonably new, so you will see some of that. also related to that, i have a misstatement about the old testament. i essentially said it did not apply any longer. i was referring to how some components don’t, you will see that when you hear the comment. it just came out wrong.
secondly; some of the terms i used then would be different now. partially that is because i have some greater clarity on how some of those terms can strike people, and some of that is from the fact that preferences about some of those terms have changed over the years.
thirdly, as my life with God continues, i continue to grow and evolve in my understanding of who He is and how He feels about humanity and the universe we inhabit. so to say that my views are exactly what they were when this talk was given, would be to assume that i haven’t grown or changed at all. i will say that some of my views have changed, but enough are similar enough, that this talk still describes my views well.
finally, my friend chris backert handled two of the talks. he and i were very close then and are still today, but i make no claims as to whether or not he holds all of the views he shared exactly as they were shared then.
as for the myriad of questions and accusations or indications of frustration at what i am doing or not doing/thinking or not thinking/representing or not representing, by supporting my friend… i will look at those again over the next few days and decide if i feel that i need to reply to any of them. i am aware of some peoples’ perceptions of me based on my views. i am not sure anything i say will convince anyone differently and will hope that those who know me the best will see Christ the most clearly in me. while many of them were either frustrating or hurtful to read, discussion like this one will bring those out. it is what it is, eh?
peace.
I am a big fan of 24. I, like many others, fear it is becoming a bit predictable; and I, like many others, can end the season pleading with Jack to speak with a reasonable indoor voice and not that growling whisper. I also would ask everyone else on the show to stop calling him Jack Bauer. Come on… how long have you known him? Call him Jack…J-an…anything… (okay, the whole J-Man thing is stupid… that doesn’t help at all)
But, as we get beyond that, I think we can all agree that we are all curious about this strange bearded man from the North Pole who seems to have a upsetting amount of information about us. He knows when we sleep? Bad or good? And then, the slight threat; You better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout I’m telling you why… We may not like the way Jack Bauer talks, and we may not like that everyone calls him Jack Bauer. But we need him.
Jack gets to the bottom of it. Finally. Take a look.
It is a bit intense and Jack drops some foul language…
But then, that, my friends is how Jack Bauer rolls… Take a look…
(title and first line edited from earlier version)
I have a friend who is same sex attracted.
The friend I am talking about would technically be considered a non-practicing male homosexual. He would also describe himself as someone who struggles with his same sex attraction.
And today we will speak for himself. I asked him if he would answer a few questions and he has done so. I am sure he will take your questions as well…
So… my friend…
What’s the most difficult part of dealing with homosexuality, and how does being a leader in a church make that worse?
I can only speak for my experience, although I’ve heard many homosexual Christian men say the same thing, that loneliness is the most difficult part of this. The unmet longing for companionship and intimacy. Some days that longing is literally an aching in my chest, like someone is squeezing my heart. Imagine watching all your friends grow up, graduate from school, marry their sweetheart–you know, progress through life normally–while you stay stuck in singleness, not because you’ve chosen it, but because you’re attracted to the same sex, and acting on that would violate your faith. It’s awful. Leadership in the church brings its own loneliness. People look at you like you’ve got your act together, like you’re just a little bit, if not a lot, closer to God than everyone else. They set you apart–alone–in the their minds. And since the church hardly understands homosexuality or how to address the people affected by it, there is a strong temptation to just hide, to be alone with your thoughts and not let anyone know what’s going on in you.
You’ve talked about feeling alone. Do you ever feel angry? What makes you angry?
we are coming up on the day we celebrate one of the greatest acts of love ever shown to humanity. God came back for us. as we prepare for that day, reflecting on the type of love we demonstrate to those around us seems fitting.
especially as we prepare to be around more family than usual (or family for longer than usual) reflecting on how our love can more fully reflect the love of God for us, seems useful. so.. let’s go to one of the best descriptions i have come across. if you have ever been to a wedding where christian scripture is read… you have heard this… get ready…
1 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don’t love, I’m nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. 2 If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing. 3 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don’t love, I’ve gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love. 4 Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self. Love doesn’t want what it doesn’t have. Love doesn’t strut, Doesn’t have a swelled head, 5 Doesn’t force itself on others, Isn’t always “me first,” Doesn’t fly off the handle, Doesn’t keep score of the sins of others, 6 Doesn’t revel when others grovel, Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth, 7 Puts up with anything, Trusts God always, Always looks for the best, Never looks back, But keeps going to the end. 1 corinthians 13.1-7 the message
a great deconstructed approach to what God’s love looks like, and how we are called to love one another. in this talk at [nlcf] i describe both that scripture and some from 1 john and show how they give us different views of the same type of love. as i go through the 1 corinthians section above, i usually make it about to mid-verse one before i realize the way i love is just not the way i am loved by God.
but if we are talking about family and love, forgiveness cannot be far behind. the reality is that family can often make us crazy. do crazy things, say crazy things, think crazy things. i am certain that tracy and i are regularly doing things that will send our kids careening into therapy!
as i was on the blog of a friend, noel heikkinen, i saw this excerpt from a book by ray pritchard entitled, “the healing power of forgiveness“. i haven’t read it but trust noel’s take on it. the excerpt deals with what forgiveness is not. here it is, hope it helps. thanks noel.
Forgiveness does not mean approving of what someone else did.
Forgiveness does not mean pretending that evil never took place.
Forgiveness does not mean making excuses for other people’s bad behavior.
Forgiveness does not mean justifying evil so that sin somehow becomes less sinful.
Forgiveness does not mean overlooking abuse.
Forgiveness does not mean denying that others tried to hurt you repeatedly.
Forgiveness does not mean letting others walk all over you.
Forgiveness does not mean refusing to press charges when a crime has been committed.
Forgiveness does not mean forgetting the wrong that was done.
Forgiveness does not mean pretending you were never hurt.
Forgiveness does not mean you must become friends again.
Forgiveness does not mean there must be a total reconciliation as if nothing ever happened.
Forgiveness does not mean that you must tell the person you have forgiven them.
Forgiveness does not mean that all negative consequences of sin are cancelled.
if none of that works, just go to here and revel in the fact that you aren’t the only one with some crazy family
i have been having a great conversation with curtis. i fear i have slowed it down due to my lack of time to respond to some of his posts, but i have been enjoying it greatly. i thought i would shift from yet another reply string and bring it back up to the top of the page. one of my much more web-savvy friends (describes almost everyone under the age 50) suggested i do this and it helps to keep me from feeling the guilt of not updating my blog since dec 3!
so… away we go…
the point has been made, by curtis and many others, that i am doing a couple of things. 
the first is that i am likely being a smidge old fashioned (as proven by my use of the word”smidge”). that essentially culture, and science along with it, have moved past this point where i seem to be stuck. that most of our culture no longer has an issue with homosexuality, and to the extent that i do, i am running counter to a very positive cultural current. in that process i am also ignoring the evidence that demonstrates that i am wrong in a couple of ways. the first is that i am wrong for supporting my friend in his desire to move out of his same sex attraction and that i need to acknowledge that no one can realistically make that change.
excellent thoughts, and if i am honest, all ones that i have deeply considered over the years. i have heard that rob bell (author of velvet elvis and sex god), when asked about his view on homosexuality, said that if you don’t have any friends that are same sex attracted, you cannot have an opinion. while that is a bit strong for me, i agree with part of his point –if he even said it in the first place . his point is this is a very personal and emotional issue. this is one of those issues that requires you to look into it closely and see the personal impact your views can have. i have been greatly helped by a number of my friends over the years that are same sex attracted, whether wanted or unwanted.
here is my initial response to them.
the first, and most simple piece to reply to is the one that no one can realistically shift their attraction. the most honest thing i can say; that is an oversimplification of the human soul to say it is incapable of that shift. i have friends that have done so, meaningfully and realistically. in my experience walking people through any number of situations, both good and bad, i have learned that we are capable of amazing things when we are convinced they are correct and possible. i will get to what i think happens when you combine the individual work of God into the situation later.
as to the current trajectory of our cultural support of homosexuality and the scientific evidence that supports that trajectory, that is a bit more involved.
let me first tell you that i am a fan of the DSM (short for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). during my undergraduate work at virginia tech as a psychology major, i got to know that thing very well. i believe it was the DSM -IVR at the time. since that point an updated version (DSM – IV TR) was adopted and the new DSM V is slated to be produced sometime in 2012 if i am not mistaken.
here is why i like the DSM. the practice of psychology (and psychiatry in many ways) is a
strong blend of art and science. there is an enormous amount of scientific study that has been done on various treatments of various mental disorders. so we have a lot of guidance on what research has shown throughout the years. the APA (American Psychological Assoc) and its contributing members, have done us a great service.
as is true of any social science, it can be quite difficult to isolate specific causes or effects in those studies. please, hear me, i am not setting up a strawman argument here, there is quite a bit of excellent research that has occured. my only point is that social scientific research is not often able to just control one variable at a time. what this does is it requires the practice of psychological therapy to be that blend of art and science that i mentioned before. clinitians take what has been demonstrated through the research and then apply it to their clients in the way they see fit.
what the DSM has brought to the table over the past 50-ish years is a way to normatively describe approaches that have the most support anecdotally, as well as from the research available. i really like that. it gives a bit of consistency to the practice of psychological therapy while allowing the art to still be expressed.
i also like that the DSM is regularly (but not often) updated. the measures that the APA and the NiMH (and likely others) have enacted to be as effective as possible are impressive. truly.
i would also agree that the APA has determined based on research that homosexuality is simply an alternative to heterosexuality, with no need to be “cured”- and those that demonstrate this preference should be encouraged to be accepting of it and the rest of society should as well.
here is where i would see things a bit differently.
Okay, I am new to the blogging world and am working on several serious posts. As I was doing said work I came across a tweet from a friend of mine, JR Briggs. I mentioned that I am new to the blogosphere because I am not sure that it is in the least bit cool that I am cutting and pasting his latest blog post — verbatim. But hey, quite frankly, angry 55 year old women standing on 75 pound ladders make me laugh very, very hard. So, JR, you found it… take it away!
From the homeowner:
“Good news is that I truly out did myself this year with my Christmas decorations. The bad news is that I had to take him down after 2 days. I had more people come screaming up to my house than ever. Great stories. But two things made me take it down.
First, the cops advised me that it would cause traffic accidents as they almost wrecked when they drove by.
Second, a 55 year old lady grabbed the 75 pound ladder almost killed herself putting it against my house and didn’t realize it was fake until she climbed to the top (she was not happy). By the way, she was one of many people who attempted to do that.
My yard couldn’t take it either. I have more than a few tire tracks where people literally drove up my yard.”
okay. really peep per country. thanks to google analytics and my web
guru friend extraordinare, Todd Heistand, and thanks of course to my friend in the Czech Republic and my other one in Latvia. what that essentially means is that 1 out of the roughly 2,245,243 residents of Latvia and 1 out of the 10,212,000 in the Czech Republic have taken a look at the blog. so i am rocking about 0.00000044% of Latvia and 0.000000097% of the Czech Republic with my sweet words and reflections. way to go Eastern Europe! and, that isn’t even counting the five or six other countries that have less than two visitors! let’s keep getting the word out. i want to see some Moldova love by the end of the year!
seriously, for those of you that have stopped by, thanks and i hope that we can continue to engage in conversation about things that are important, things that are fun and things that are both.
in the interest of something serious; nay, lifechanging (yes i just said nay). i was shown this youtube clip by a new friend of mine, jason berggren. he just recently wrote “10 Things I Hate About Christianity – Working Through the Frustrations of Faith” you can see him interviewed on ABC here. anyway, jason was able to draw my attention to something truly valuable… the opportunity to utilize some sweet hymn-driven aerobics to help those holiday pounds melt away. so… without further ado…
(first line and title edited from earlier version)
I have a friend who is same sex attracted.
The friend I am talking about would technically
be considered a non-practicing male homosexual. He would also describe himself as someone who struggles with his same sex attraction.
my friend is mostly excited about the opportunity to be open about his life.
mostly.
let me make sure i am clear. he is, and has been, open about everything else in his life – and with several close friends, he has been open about everything for years. and so he is mostly excited about having the chance to be open with all of his life.
not so he can talk about himself all the time/not so he can speak without restraint whenever he wants. he is just mostly excited that finally, when he feels led by God, he can use his example/speak from his experience/demonstrate that he understands an aspect of life that many don’t.
mostly.
On Monday, November 24, 2009 the internet-spamming world was dealt a terrible blow when Alan Raisky, 61, of West Bloomfield MI was sentenced to 51 months in prison and another 5 years of probation. The self-labeled “godfather of spam” was convicted for his part in leading micro-cap stock “pump and dump” schemes. For those of you who are exactly like me and barely understand the term micro-cap, here is what a pump and dump scheme is.
Raisky and his wiley band of web-based malcontents would pick a cheap stock, buy large quantites when it was very cheap and then literally flood the internet (very much against Al Gore’s original intent) with messages indicating this stock was the next “hot buy”. As recipients would buy the stock and send the price up, Raisky would sell. Hence pump and dump.
So, Raisky is off to prison and then supervised release and finally…finally, all my Nigerian friends that are the attorneys for/children of/ wives of/ couriers for wealthy Nigerian families that need my help to get money out of that country and into ours, can do so respectfully.
“This book affected me deeply. It’s one of the greatest treatises I’ve ever read on life’s deepest questions about God and the whys in life. I think the Lord has produced a classic through Jim Pace. It will be read and studied by skeptics and seminarians, peasants and presidents. Very few have written so well what so many have wondered when it comes to God and suffering.”
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